I've always felt that RTD was like Whedon in his tendency to see popular characters as dramatic fodder without really understanding (or maybe being impatient with) just how deeply some fans identify with them.
IMO writers just can't allow themselves to get as close to their characters as fans do, because they always have to think of the story as a whole. Not all, but most fans will focus on one or a few characters; there are people who identified with Ianto so much that they completely lost interest in TW when he died. I doubt any good writer, no matter what their own history as a fan is, can ever fully understand that kind of reaction. The story always has to come before the characters for them. Literature allows maybe a bit more self-indulgence in this respect, but TV, where there's more money at stake and you have to appeal to a wide audience, doesn't. And despite the reaction from online fandom, from what I've seen CoE was on a whole lot of Best of TV 09 lists...
I think I know what you mean by using characters as dramatic fodder, but personally speaking, I have more problems in this respect with JW. There are a few instances in both Buffy and Angel where I felt characters were simply jerked around to suit the plot in ways that didn't exactly make them OOC, but certainly stretched the limits of their prior characterisation; I've never had that problem with RTD so far.
Maybe you can help me out here - The 'nine hysterical women' comment - was that ever said in the fans' face? Because I got curious and googled around and I only found it as an editor's note on that AfterElton interview; not even a full quote, taken out of context, and very likely assumed to have been said off the record. Not that this changes the fact that it probably was said in one form or the other, but for me that would make a bit of a difference.
Generally speaking, I'm not saying anyone should get a pass, but in most cases, if one isn't dealing with people who are bigoted on a very profound level, but are already making an effort in their work, even if the results aren't always perfect, I think it does help to consider context and where the other person is coming from. And while I do understand women being offended at being called hysterical, I also do think that straight women should stop for a moment and think, when RTD says he finds it condescending when straight people are trying to lecture him about something he's been dealing with his whole life, instead of also immediately being offended about that, because while it all got mixed up in the mess that was the TW fallout, the former is a somewhat sexist insult, the other a rather legitimate concern about something that definitely was happening in TW fandom.
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Date: 2010-01-17 02:03 pm (UTC)IMO writers just can't allow themselves to get as close to their characters as fans do, because they always have to think of the story as a whole. Not all, but most fans will focus on one or a few characters; there are people who identified with Ianto so much that they completely lost interest in TW when he died. I doubt any good writer, no matter what their own history as a fan is, can ever fully understand that kind of reaction. The story always has to come before the characters for them. Literature allows maybe a bit more self-indulgence in this respect, but TV, where there's more money at stake and you have to appeal to a wide audience, doesn't. And despite the reaction from online fandom, from what I've seen CoE was on a whole lot of Best of TV 09 lists...
I think I know what you mean by using characters as dramatic fodder, but personally speaking, I have more problems in this respect with JW. There are a few instances in both Buffy and Angel where I felt characters were simply jerked around to suit the plot in ways that didn't exactly make them OOC, but certainly stretched the limits of their prior characterisation; I've never had that problem with RTD so far.
Maybe you can help me out here - The 'nine hysterical women' comment - was that ever said in the fans' face? Because I got curious and googled around and I only found it as an editor's note on that AfterElton interview; not even a full quote, taken out of context, and very likely assumed to have been said off the record. Not that this changes the fact that it probably was said in one form or the other, but for me that would make a bit of a difference.
Generally speaking, I'm not saying anyone should get a pass, but in most cases, if one isn't dealing with people who are bigoted on a very profound level, but are already making an effort in their work, even if the results aren't always perfect, I think it does help to consider context and where the other person is coming from. And while I do understand women being offended at being called hysterical, I also do think that straight women should stop for a moment and think, when RTD says he finds it condescending when straight people are trying to lecture him about something he's been dealing with his whole life, instead of also immediately being offended about that, because while it all got mixed up in the mess that was the TW fallout, the former is a somewhat sexist insult, the other a rather legitimate concern about something that definitely was happening in TW fandom.