But the thing is Jack wasn't the one who ordered the original 12 children to be given to the 456, it doesn't have to be Jack that handed them over.
But it was Jack. Arguing that the fact that someone else might (or might not, which is also a possibility) have done the same absolves him from personal responsibility leads towards a very slippery slope. If you apply this logic to real life situations, where do you draw the line? When is someone responsible for their own actions? Speaking as someone from Austria, if you really follow through with this, it leads to the kind of situation where the only one to be really held accountable in 1945 would have been Hitler's charred corpse, because everyone else could have claimed that someone else might have done the same in their stead.
Story wise it didn't matter, only the fans cared Ianto died.
Well, Jack clearly also cared. Ianto's family did. Gwen. Not to be rude here, but did you actually read my post? Because I explained at length why I thought it mattered from a narrative POV. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
The new audience doesn't care or seen it coming a mile away, they don't care, so the death did not matter.
Do you really think non-Jack/Ianto fans didn't care, as in, watched this and were completely unmoved? I have of course no statistic evidence to back this up (do you, though?), but I highly doubt it.
And just don't go there with RTD being gay so it's not homophobia, it's the message CoE sends.
I recommend reading this (http://eumelia.livejournal.com/417205.html) and this (http://eumelia.livejournal.com/416621.html) post by eumelia; she is looking at this from a queer perspective has some very interesting and intelligent thoughts on this.
And sorry, yes, I still am going there. I think this is one of those cases where it's a legitimate discussion within the gay community, but when it's straight people telling a gay man what he's supposed to be allowed to write or not when it comes to gay issues... ouch. Not okay. On that note, if you tell me you're gay I'll shut up about this.
Dood, alien in the building, what are all those non-essential personnel doing in there?
It was still the MI5 headquarters; which I assume couldn't be relocated that quickly with all its infrastructure and resources? And after all they were the people who dealt with the 456 before, judging from the fact that they had the old recordings in their basement.
I haven't calculated if the every 3 secs is true, but the second part is false.
Sadly, no, it isn't. There are undoubtedly good people who will fight for justice and their ideals, but given the right (or wrong, if you will) circumstances the majority in almost every situation will adapt and accept, or at least close their eyes to what they don't want to see if it threatens to shake their personal comfort. What RTD is saying here isn't so very different from what Joseph Stiglitz and others are saying about the injustice of globalisation as it is happening today.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. It made sense to me; I'm not going to apologise for this, and I'm not going to make a mental effort to hate something that I like.
no subject
But it was Jack. Arguing that the fact that someone else might (or might not, which is also a possibility) have done the same absolves him from personal responsibility leads towards a very slippery slope. If you apply this logic to real life situations, where do you draw the line? When is someone responsible for their own actions? Speaking as someone from Austria, if you really follow through with this, it leads to the kind of situation where the only one to be really held accountable in 1945 would have been Hitler's charred corpse, because everyone else could have claimed that someone else might have done the same in their stead.
Story wise it didn't matter, only the fans cared Ianto died.
Well, Jack clearly also cared. Ianto's family did. Gwen. Not to be rude here, but did you actually read my post? Because I explained at length why I thought it mattered from a narrative POV. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
The new audience doesn't care or seen it coming a mile away, they don't care, so the death did not matter.
Do you really think non-Jack/Ianto fans didn't care, as in, watched this and were completely unmoved? I have of course no statistic evidence to back this up (do you, though?), but I highly doubt it.
And just don't go there with RTD being gay so it's not homophobia, it's the message CoE sends.
I recommend reading this (http://eumelia.livejournal.com/417205.html) and this (http://eumelia.livejournal.com/416621.html) post by
And sorry, yes, I still am going there. I think this is one of those cases where it's a legitimate discussion within the gay community, but when it's straight people telling a gay man what he's supposed to be allowed to write or not when it comes to gay issues... ouch. Not okay. On that note, if you tell me you're gay I'll shut up about this.
Dood, alien in the building, what are all those non-essential personnel doing in there?
It was still the MI5 headquarters; which I assume couldn't be relocated that quickly with all its infrastructure and resources? And after all they were the people who dealt with the 456 before, judging from the fact that they had the old recordings in their basement.
I haven't calculated if the every 3 secs is true, but the second part is false.
Sadly, no, it isn't. There are undoubtedly good people who will fight for justice and their ideals, but given the right (or wrong, if you will) circumstances the majority in almost every situation will adapt and accept, or at least close their eyes to what they don't want to see if it threatens to shake their personal comfort. What RTD is saying here isn't so very different from what Joseph Stiglitz and others are saying about the injustice of globalisation as it is happening today.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. It made sense to me; I'm not going to apologise for this, and I'm not going to make a mental effort to hate something that I like.